If you want to USE something in a map, or edit it for PRIVATE use, go right ahead, but give credit
If you want to edit someone else's hard work, not only must you give them credit, you must ASK permission from them. You don't like it? Life isn't made to your liking
If someone want to USE another one resource (model, skin, icon, sound, or anything) on his worthy map (note that this could be playable map or spell map), the map author MUST give credit to the resource author, WITH or WITHOUT any permission before.
If someone want to EDIT another one resource (model, skin, icon, sound, or anything) and submit it to public (note that include those EDITED resource to a map which is submitted to public can be considered as submit the EDITED resource to public), the resource editor MUST give credit to original author AND get permission from original author.
Is it right? (This is just to make all the things clear)
"Of course you can use it as long as you give me credit, that's why i submit my model to the public."
exactly what i think... who ever submits anything to the public already know that his things may be edited and used by any other person, if they dont want it to be edited, then keep em for themselves, like i do to many of the things that i make
Ok N£cr0m@nc£r, what did I do this time? You keep complaining that I deleted the spell. Oh well, I did not. Vexorian did and you said it before as well! So stop blaming me for the pack being deleted!
ok sorry i didnt mean to blame you and i know that it wasnt u, since u said it in the first post u made in this thread
Okay, and close this topic? I never said I would do that... DarkShadow, Veggie and Oz02 are the only ones who can do that in this section.
well u said "That's more than enough! End of discussion!!!",i just though u were closing the whole topic, but since u dont have power to do that sorry again
And obviously, there is no way a rule can please anyone. Rules are around here to make things good. They can always be improved.
well, they shouldnt be improved, the rules are the backbone of any site (or SHOULD be in this case)... if the rules were 100% made, there would be no problem and i wasnt posting about it
However, I still don't agree with taking stuff from someone else, just edit it a little and post it on the site. If you take it for your own map that's fine, but don't submit it.
sorry to say but i dont care if u agree or not, the fact is that he wasnt breaking any rules
Northstar should be happy that Vexorian didn't warn him, for posting crap. I didn't see him complain that his map was deleted. So, stop defending him unless he needs it.
NOW LOOK WHO IS DEFENDING WHO! if ur so innocent as u say, then why doesnt the one who deleted the spell pack (vexorian) come and defend himself? is he a man or a rat? or maybe his coincience is just too heavy to do it? well northstar doesnt complain that his map got deleted, but i have a friend that had same problem, though it was a bit diferent... but then i saw norhstar spells getting deleted for no reason, and it really pissed me off... i bet this wasnt the only case and i guess u or another mod, deleted many spells that werent breaking any rule at all... why do u do it? do u just like to click the "delete" button? or u just like to see ppl that worked for days on a single spell to get pissed?
You don't like it? Life isn't made to your liking
heck, I TOTTALY AGREE with that... life isnt made to your liking, so again, why did u delete his spells? because it was breaking any rule u just invented NOW? omg
I find something really curious. You quote the last part of Mecheon's post, and ignore all the rest of it? That's really... curious. If you had read what Mecheon said, there would be no reason to continue this conversation. Law-breaking = Should be insta-ban!
Also, rules can be updated from time to time, and anyway it's not like the rule-makers can think of all the things that they would find to add in their rules and add them all in. Wait, let me rephrase that. Rule-makers are not omnipotent, sometimes they MISS things out, you know?
Let me just summarize it simply. The world is ever-changing. Everyone finds new ways to do new things. Not everyone can anticipate what is to come, so why do you expect them to?
And anyway, don't question mods. Moderators usually have reasons behind what they do. And when people are made mods, it shows that they are trusted by the higher-ups. That means they have integrity, and you should believe that what they do is usually correct. If you have a problem with a moderator, perhaps you should bring it to the attention of the higher-ups?
Meep. Rules are stupid, and made to be broken. That's the note I end on, and I bet that 50% of the world's population will find my post illegible and impossible to perceive. ^_^
Look, rulemakers can never think of EVERY single fecking situation that might happan when designing rules, hence why there are presently no rules for models. But there actually ARE rules for it, which I enforce very much so
And if people submit stuff to the public, they can accept that it will be used, I can give you that. But changed? Nope. There are many cases of this, which one could easily find just by looking around
And Leopard hit the nail on the head and drove it down enough to make a board with a nail in it
And I didn't delete his spells. I simple am feeling that I have to defend. I don't know if Vex even checks this forum anyway
And no, we don't like to see people who work their asses off on things get pissed off. Why else do you think that I for instance aren't a hard-ass deleter? We want to allow people to show off their efforts, and delete ones that are either REALLY inadequate, or broke a rule. What do I mean by really inadequate? I mean HORRIBLY, doesn't work ingame and other such. And by rule breaking, I refer to things such as pornography, taking someone else's things without permission, which I might add is STEALING, or other such things
Oh, and I think those spell rules haven't been touched ever since the creation of the website, so they are horribly out of date
MecheonAnd if people submit stuff to the public, they can accept that it will be used, I can give you that. But changed? Nope. There are many cases of this, which one could easily find just by looking around
I wish it was true. When someone submit something here he know that it will be used in its present and\or any edited form. Why? Simply because no one has the power to avoid it. If you are aware of it but you don't want your stuff to be edited, you shouldn't have submitted it on the first place. Hey, the very exsistence of this site is based on the editing of copywrited material.
Anyway, sorry, but i doubt you can find someone more skilled than Vexorian when it comes to spellmaking. Don't see who he should be jealous of. If he deleted something because it was too similar to an existent resource, i guess he had all the right to do so. The rules are based on common sense, no?
Now, said that... stop trolling please. These guys had a concern, and they had all the right to ask for an answer. If you can't bear it, that's your own problem. Insulting don't help anyone. Last time i checked users were still allowed to discuss with the staff. If not, why the fuck you keep a site discussion forum up for?
find something really curious. You quote the last part of Mecheon's post, and ignore all the rest of it? That's really... curious. If you had read what Mecheon said, there would be no reason to continue this conversation. Law-breaking = Should be insta-ban!
ahem... well i will repeat this for the 3rd time... 1º arksword gave permission to everyone by writing what he wrote in the loading screen... please check it out by yourself... 2º north star gave full credits to EVERYONE 3º i guess no one is a lawyer here, but still i contacted some webmasters that are friends of mine and guess what they ALL said? if u steal something that is COPYRIGHTED that is a crime, but if it isnt COPYRIGHTED it isnt 4º oh yea i will point this out as well, since we are all wc3 players after all, right? do everyone ever heard of dota? if u didnt know, dota was made by eul, and when TFT came out, some fool decided to edit it... did he ask eul's consent? NO... did he gave credits to eul? heck, NO... did he get punished by law by doing so? NO... dota is just one out of many, so that u know it, but this has none with this damn conversation
Let me just summarize it simply. The world is ever-changing.
yes, i have to agree with that, even if i dont like it a bit... why it is ever changing? well... there was a time when mods RESPECTED the members, honored their words, and didnt simply delete something for their own pleasure (i dont say any name in special, so it will just HURT the ones that are doing it)
That means they have integrity, and you should believe that what they do is usually correct.
i should think what they do is correct? man i aint any "sheep, baaaah" that just follows its shepherd, and heck, it seems that i have to repeat things thousands of times, BUT CHECK THE RULES PAGE, things some mods are doing is INcorrect
Look, rulemakers can never think of EVERY single fecking situation that might happan when designing rules, hence why there are presently no rules for models. But there actually ARE rules for it, which I enforce very much so
then how can i know what i can post or not in the site if there are no rules for em?
I mean HORRIBLY, doesn't work ingame and other such. And by rule breaking, I refer to things such as pornography, taking someone else's things without permission, which I might add is STEALING, or other such things
now comes the good part... horribly, no, what my friend made actually was cool... it wasnt made by a pro like daelin or vex (aha), but still it was cool... now u want to speak about STEALING? well first, i already pointed out dota, and i want to point out one more famous map... DBZ tribute... i guess ppl already played this one too... but i do remember that the ORIGINAL maker of this map in his final version said something like this in the loading screen "i am opening the map so that other ppl can edit it"... well, he didnt SAID U COULD SUBMIT IT IN WC3SEARCH, and what? the one who edited the map, submited it here... u deleted it? NO... why? why i ask u? northstar did the same in his spell pack, and his spells got deleted... the rules APPLIES for everyone? it doesnt seem so...
So, i have something to add. Why don't u delete Dota Allstars, if u can delete North Star's spell? Like necro said: Dota's original creator is eul, but another 'dumbass' took it away and edited it. 'dumbass'? Yes dumbass! U all know good enough that the creator(the one who edited dota) took kinda 'ALL' spells of this site. Including some skins and models. WITHOUT giving EVERY author he's credits. I checked the game information, Since version 6.00 he gave SOME credits, but surely not enough. 'credits go to http://www.wc3sear.ch/' Or was it 'some'? I can find all spells in dota from this site. So this time i'm right : Dota has spells/skins/models/icons from this site. Of mostly all spells are credits asked, result: No one gets their name in dota! As the true, he stolen : dota's map/spells/skins/models/icons. U all know it good enough, u guys do nothing on this, but deleting a simple spellmap is easy for u ? Come on, this is unreal.
Hello, I made a thread in the spells section about this, Northstar is able to upload his spell map as long as it doesn't include arksword's spell.
I actually gabe northstar the chance to delete that spell from his map, he even read the warning and intentionally didn't listen, so I deleted it, and you see? Because of this precedent I will delete any map that steals spells from other people DIRECTLY WITHOUT A WARNING, just to prevent lame trolling like the one my warning has caused.
well, lets get to the point... why did u delete northstar's psychic spells?
first thing i want to speak about... you say the spells were violating the rules?
As a matter of fact yes. Rule #0 a rule made by Darky27: If I don't think it is right to have a spell in the spell section I will delete it; If I like a spell I will give it DC.
Modified versions of spells already submitted on this site, provided that the original author has consented to this.
well, daelin, u said u doubt if northstar asked asksword consent to edit the spell? well, then i guess u didnt even test asksword's nova because he said this "If any of these spells are edited or used, u must give me credit." in the loading screen! And northstar actually gave full credits to everyone, be it asksword, or any maker of his hero's spell icons. u also said u would give northstar 48 hours (if i am not mistaken) to delete his spells or u would delete them by urself... uhm, i see that u didnt even honor your word, since the whole spells were delete in less then 24 hours!
1) I don't care. 2) Arkswords map doesn't specify that what he is asking is valid for maps uploaded to spell section, as a matter of fact It is obvious he is saying so for playable maps.
Also, this have nothing to do with Northstar's spells, but isnt it a bit too much coincidence a moderator giving DC to another moderator?
P.S. i dont mean to flame any moderator and i also hope that my post doesnt get deleted
As a matter of fact I don't really care about director's choice, if it makes you guys so uncomfortable I will remove my DC spells.
So thats right. And tell me, why didn't i get my comments? Come on, u guys are moderators for something, or not? And i'm sure u was jealous, vexorian. Some reaction now then? = ThX!
Yeah I was jealous so I deleted that spell, It wasn't because of spell stealing it was because I was jealous.
Anyways if any of you has a problem with my moderation please complain to Darky29 or VGSatomi directly instead of making a show.
I consider usage of ANY resource made by someone else without EXPLICIT permission for USAGE on A SPELL SECTION map thievery, and from now I will delete stuff directly without a warning cause warnings seem to cause more problems than fixing them.
So, i have something to add. Why don't u delete Dota Allstars, if u can delete North Star's spell? Like necro said: Dota's original creator is eul, but another 'dumbass' took it away and edited it. 'dumbass'? Yes dumbass!
I don't moderate the maps section.
had one spell before that got deleted by vexorian. He says that my spell look like a pack of model that created by another person (oinkerwinkle and Mc !). Vex, said to ask the creator if i want to submit my spell again.
Well, I know my spell not good either, even though i don't want to submit it again, still i try to ask permission to both of those artists.
And they answered,
"Of course you can use it as long as you give me credit, that's why i submit my model to the public." (this is not the exact word).
By the time you uploaded the map you didn't have permission to upload them, I know that because I asked Mc! , your map also had tons of models from thehubb for no reason.
Anyway, I dislike the rule that says spellmaker should get permission not just giving credit.
Don't upload spells then.
Assume that i wanna use some buffs/effects model for my spell.
But you don't have to, in fact it would only make the spell's map grow up.
So i must contact the author, right?. Well, I got the replies from those two modelers at least two weeks. I consider that they doesn't logged in to this site really often.
So, what must i (or any spellmaker) do, if i want to submit my spell that use another effect model that created by another guy and we really don't know each other really close? And those artists rarely logged in to this site (like Cookie, oinkerwinkle, Mc !)? PM him? It takes too long, since he rarely logged in to this site.
Then don't use the Model.
Anyway, i don't like either if there are a crap spell using a bunch of good models, so it look like a model pack.
Quote: Stand against 3 moderators, and two other users? Wow, you must really have some nerve.
Of course they really got some nerve. Seriously, I salute both of you. *salute*
Ehm, Daelin, it doesn't matter to whom they stand against. The matter is, does their opinion is good or not. We must use objective point of view not just subjective thinking.
--- Anyways I think I have to say this:
--- News Flash:
- Maps uploaded to the spells section are supposed to be about code not anything else. - You don't really have to include models or someone else's spells in your map, There is No need to do so. In fact even if that wasn't against my rules it would still be LAME, seriously LAME.
- In Fact your spell map should have good coding NOTHING ELSE, everything else is an addition, unless you really want something new and you have explicit permission from the author to use it on an OPEN SOURCE MAP THAT IS GOING TO BE UPLOADED TO WC3SEARCH's SPELL SECTION.
Cause on every single report no one seems to be specifying that they asked to use the model for the spell section but just said for "my map". Of course any model fellow would want you to use the model on "your map". But that's not the same about an OPEN SOURCE MAP anyone can download.
Instead of single usage it is redistribution. Modellers may like to give usage permission but not distribution permission.
--- The End: Things that people don't seem to be nothing: - Northstar has all the right to upload the map again as long as it doesn't have Arksword's spell (DOES it really HAVE to have that spell?)
In fact as jealous as I am of Northstar, he was always able to reupload the other spells. (By the way was the 500KB worth of models and skins of that map made by him?)
- Leopard also had the permission to upload the map without that bunch of unit models that were included for no reason at all (by the way Mc! directly asked me to delete that map that time)
- You can post, flood whatever, the method I use to decide when to delete will not change untill this site dies or I am removed from moderator status.
Edit: since they offended people, I deleted my 2 spell maps that were on DC, they will not come back to this site, I promise.
explain to me what do u think "lame" actually means... 1º i have seen some mod saying that construtive criticism was accept 2º i have seen daelin saying he wanted more ppl to watch the rules before posting, so what have i been doing? wasnt that what u wanted?
As a matter of fact yes. Rule #0 a rule made by Darky27: If I don't think it is right to have a spell in the spell section I will delete it; If I like a spell I will give it DC.
ahaha, now u said everything i wanted to hear (or maybe not), i though u gave DC only to the BEST spells and not to the spells that u liked also and where is that rule u mentioned? sorry if i am blind or too stupid but i didnt see it anywhere
As a matter of fact I don't really care about director's choice, if it makes you guys so uncomfortable I will remove my DC spells.
now i start understand how u mods feel when u say that u have to repeat the same things thousands of times... i have just said "sorry for this" and still u want to continue speaking about it?
Of course they really got some nerve. Seriously, I salute both of you.
oh yea, i have seen too many ppl already saying "i had some nerve", no, all i want to know is why the rules arent being applied to everyone... if north star just made some slight editing on asksword's spell and didnt ask his consent, so did the guys that edited dota all stars and DBZ tribute for example, and their maps didnt get deleted like northstar's spells
Anyways if any of you has a problem with my moderation please complain to Darky29 or VGSatomi directly instead of making a show.
uhm? like nasrudin said "Last time i checked users were still allowed to discuss with the staff. If not, why the **** you keep a site discussion forum up for?"
Yeah I was jealous so I deleted that spell, It wasn't because of spell stealing it was because I was jealous.
man i really love sarcasm, really, i do! oh yea, i just checked ur edited post, there was no need to remove ur spells that had DC for christ sake, now everyone will just think i am the bad guy around here, taking the candy from kids
I don't moderate the maps section.
jop just noticed that the ones who moderate em is VGsatomi, panto and darky, and i would really like to know from these mods why the hell arent the rules being applied to everyone
Edit: since they offended people, I deleted my 2 spell maps that were on DC, they will not come back to this site, I promise.
really, i will repeat THIS AGAIN, i said in the start that i didnt mean to offend anyone, and if u or someone got offended, maybe their conscience is hurting?
ahaha, now u said everything i wanted to hear (or maybe not), i though u gave DC only to the BEST spells and not to the spells that u liked also and where is that rule u mentioned? sorry if i am blind or too stupid but i didnt see it anywhere
That's what Darky28 explainned to me about what should I do as a spell moderator when he cursed me with that moderator position.
An yes I only give DC to spells I like.
In my opinion I think that the spells I like happen to also be the best. I might be wrong but I am the moderator.
It is kind of hard to believe that a spell I like wasn't the best spell or that I wouldn't like the best spell.
By the way, try understanding what the Term Director's choice means
really, i will repeat THIS AGAIN, i said in the start that i didnt mean to offend anyone, and if u or someone got offended, maybe their conscience is hurting?
It is clear that you didn't want to offend anyone, but It was clear that you were offended by the fact that a moderator gave another moderator DC , so I removed the spells not because I was offended but because they offended you.
explain to me what do u think "lame" actually means... 1º i have seen some mod saying that construtive criticism was accept 2º i have seen daelin saying he wanted more ppl to watch the rules before posting, so what have i been doing? wasnt that what u wanted?
Ok, I will explain: - Northstar uploads a spell map with a Stolen spell. And some other spells I don't remember. - I kindly warn him and recommend him to remove that spell so the spell map stays there. I didn't really need to warn him you know? His spell was against the rules, as in "This site doesn't support thieves".
- Northstar reads the message and doesn't give a shit about it, other people come and start spamming there.
- I delete the map because I said I will do so.
- I make a post in the spells forum explaining why I deleted it and what should happen now.
- In fact this time I tried to do the stuff as kindly as possible. I didn't really have to warn or to explain stuff in a post. It seems I wasted my time doing so. My warn only helped some people to insult me, what's wrong with this site? And the announcement in the spell forum seems to has been only read by 2 guys.
- But obviously nothing is easy, 2 guys appear on the site discussion forum to cry about a spell map with a stolen spell being deleted. And you know what? They insult me again!
And that's how I learned to avoid kindness when moderating a spell section, thanks.
That's also the meaning of Lame in my lexicon. In fact I don't even know why I bother to visit this site anymore.
i am not sure about this one... but again why are these maps that i said (dota and dbz tribute) for download? after all, all they did was take the original map, do some modifications and didnt even care about giving full credits to everyone, not saying that they didnt ask the consent of the original map maker to post it in wc3search
- In fact this time I tried to do the stuff as kindly as possible. I didn't really have to warn or to explain stuff in a post. It seems I wasted my time doing so. My warn only helped some people to insult me, what's wrong with this site? And the announcement in the spell forum seems to has been only read by 2 guys.
no, it wasnt only read by 2 guys, actually i read it too... want to know why i didnt reply? simply, because ur moderator there... and guess what, i am AFRAID... if u deleted north star spells without hesitation, then u would do so to my "offensive post" right?
It is clear that you didn't want to offend anyone, but It was clear that you were offended by the fact that a moderator gave another moderator DC , so I removed the spells not because I was offended but because they offended you. - But obviously nothing is easy, 2 guys appear on the site discussion forum to cry about a spell map with a stolen spell being deleted. And you know what? They insult me again!
first u say u didnt feel offended, but then u say i insulted u? secondly, i really dont know who is crying here and i just want to know why the rules arent being applied to everyone. thirdly i though that DC thingy was already cleared, but it doesnt seem so, what the hell must i do so u forgive me about that? must i say sorry again? so be it, "sorry sorry and sorry again". also i wont reply to any post regarding that "thingy"
Trust me: Give us half the chance, and we will DELETE that godawful DotA. The only thing that keeps it on the site is that there are worse maps that don't even have triggers. So, despite it being a pathetically imba and crummy map, there are worse
WHY it is so fecking popular I would never know
And trust me, this site doesn't support thieves. I've banned people for stealing models, the same fecking model that even DDGNW has had to ban someone for uploaded. Xaran, the maker of the model, is always displeased that there are so many people uploading his model
Technically DotA is open source. However, very soon I'm thinking of adding "original maps only" to the submit criteria...that way, all these clones of other people's works can finally be removed.
One reason I haven't done this yet is because I simply don't know who the original authors to many of the routinely cloned maps are. Eul for Dota and Duke Wintermaul for Maul is about all I know at the moment. I created a topic a while back, listing several frequently-copied maps and asked if anyone know who the original autheros were...but, as expected, I got hardly any responses.... -VGsatomi
By the time you uploaded the map you didn't have permission to upload them, I know that because I asked Mc! , your map also had tons of models from thehubb for no reason.
Yeah, that's right and i won't submit those spell anymore.
Cause on every single report no one seems to be specifying that they asked to use the model for the spell section but just said for "my map". Of course any model fellow would want you to use the model on "your map". But that's not the same about an OPEN SOURCE MAP anyone can download.
No, i specify it when i asked them, i'm sure. well, i've deleted those PM. But the one that i'm pretty sure, i tell them about "using models on open source map". Even, i told them that i asked them like this because a moderator (i don't know you by that time) wants me to ask permission.
Then, they answer like i wrote before, once again it's not the exact words, i've already deleted those PM. I'm sure about it.
- Leopard also had the permission to upload the map ...
No, i won't submit it anymore, it's crap. I post here just to let everybody know that i had try to ask permission and that's what i've got.
Edit: This is Oinkerwinkle's replies, the one from Mc! had already deleted.
Yes, go ahead. Putting it in that section pretty much means that anyone is free to put it in a map.
